Curse

belshazaarswrath · Aug 22, 2010, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondrakif

Then bring more people?

...Well then you would be running something far less efficient than the normal raptor builds...

Luminarus · Aug 22, 2010, 06:45 AM // 06:45

The problem with them is simply there concept. Its either too overpowered, and lets be honest there are ridiculously large amounts of anti melee skills out there atm. Or its underpowered, and crap like the OP is complaining about. Its like smiters boon, a nice concept, until put in practice and then the only option is to ensure its gone.

I would consider making Amity a defensive spell that ends on attacks, Maybe something like shield of deflection except only when standing still, or healing hands. Basically a beneficial effect on target when attacked and not moving, ending on an attack, with Pacificism being a weaker option or a limited option.

Gondrakif · Aug 22, 2010, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

...Well then you would be running something far less efficient than the normal raptor builds...

Of course it will be less efficient than normal raptor builds.. What brought us to the raptor cave was an attempt to find a use for this skill, since everyone agrees that this skill is not by any means efficient the use of it in a build will lead to something less efficient compared to other builds.

maxxfury · Aug 22, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

so, you put the party to sleep and then what? how long? long enough to walk over and slit their throats?..........

oh dear..

Age · Aug 23, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman relic

hey OP thanks for trolling i rarly go into RA without pacifist onto my mes's bar degen or hexes with it telling team not to attack = useless frontliner and if u cant kill someone who dont have a monk in 8 seconds in pvp gtfo it and amity is even better but takes the elite slot so not so much

Who says I am trolling this is the Monk forum which I play and you are ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

so, you put the party to sleep and then what? how long? long enough to walk over and slit their throats?..........

oh dear..

It would be only usefull against those who do damage eg Warrior,Ranger,Sin but it the opposing parties Monk could still heal/protect you.

Sorry for double post Admins or Mods.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 23, 2010, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondrakif

Of course it will be less efficient than normal raptor builds.. What brought us to the raptor cave was an attempt to find a use for this skill, since everyone agrees that this skill is not by any means efficient the use of it in a build will lead to something less efficient compared to other builds.

Uh can you rephrase that or clarify or something? I'm not getting your point.

maxxfury · Aug 23, 2010, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Im guessing the idea behind pacifism in a raptor build is:

1: round up whole cave
2: pacify brood mother so she cant twisting jaws you
3: the build that cant normally round up last group+mother can kill all nestlings...
4: profit

Tho when she takes a hit from any of your offense pacifism ends...equating to = it doesnt work as well as theorised^

right?

Just Sai · Aug 23, 2010, 11:46 PM // 23:46

question: Pacifism and Amity,How to improve these skills

answer: stack wastrels on top

belshazaarswrath · Aug 24, 2010, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Im guessing the idea behind pacifism in a raptor build is:

1: round up whole cave
2: pacify brood mother so she cant twisting jaws you
3: the build that cant normally round up last group+mother can kill all nestlings...
4: profit

Tho when she takes a hit from any of your offense pacifism ends...equating to = it doesnt work as well as theorised^

right?

Twisting Jaws is a touch skill. So it will work as normal.

Also this talk of using amity or pacifism in this way is pointless. Both skills are all around useless. They need to be buffed/completely changed.

maxxfury · Aug 24, 2010, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Twisting Jaws is a touch skill. So it will work as normal.

Also this talk of using amity or pacifism in this way is pointless. Both skills are all around useless. They need to be buffed/completely changed.

yah...but i think that is THEIR reason for trying it^ futile effort..not mine and not something that id try or even think about...im past that kind of theory crafting with erroneous mechanics or horrendous skills...

And yeah they blow...but so do 70%~ of the skills in the game...there are just too many keep in balance* without a massive amount of redundancy.,...hence the skill count in gw2 is gonna be much much smaller&

Its just easier to leave a crap load of skill worthless, than have them buffed with izzy's old dartboard into the land of broken powercreep..

Id rather they just removed a heap of them instead of leaving them in limbo, but alas its a BIG coding deal and ppl would p1ss and moan to no end...so they leave them as "also ran" skills that never see the light of day..

*yeah i said balance

funny a concept as that may be around here :O most ksill suggestions i see around these parts are either nonsense or pure unadulterated powercreep...much worse than just leaving the skill in limbo.

Epitaph · Aug 24, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I agree with Maxxfury, most of the skill suggestions are nonsense and/or a powercreep. On that note, however, I like the fact that we have a large skill pool to choose from, allows for more creativity in a skill bar (despite peoples concentration on meta). Almost ever skill has a use, in one are of the game. With that being said, I don't think Pacifism is completely useless but Amity is a complete waste of an elite skill. Pacifism could be used for subduing a foe while the group concentrates on another and I think that is a fine skill.

Again, I would never use Amity as an elite the way it is.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 24, 2010, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

yah...but i think that is THEIR reason for trying it^ futile effort..not mine and not something that id try or even think about...im past that kind of theory crafting with erroneous mechanics or horrendous skills...

And yeah they blow...but so do 70%~ of the skills in the game...there are just too many keep in balance* without a massive amount of redundancy.,...hence the skill count in gw2 is gonna be much much smaller&

Its just easier to leave a crap load of skill worthless, than have them buffed with izzy's old dartboard into the land of broken powercreep..

Id rather they just removed a heap of them instead of leaving them in limbo, but alas its a BIG coding deal and ppl would p1ss and moan to no end...so they leave them as "also ran" skills that never see the light of day..

*yeah i said balance

funny a concept as that may be around here :O most ksill suggestions i see around these parts are either nonsense or pure unadulterated powercreep...much worse than just leaving the skill in limbo.

You kind of have to change around skills so the game stays interesting. So some skills go in and out of popularity. That's how you keep the blood flowing through the game.

When people say balance now I don't know what the hell they're talking about. There isn't going to be a perfect balance. Ever. If every class had a purpose that would be good enough.

But yea I think pacifism can be pushed under the bed. Amity on the other hand should have some value in this game. I mean it's an elite. In my opinion EVERY elite in this game should be a valuable skill.

Mashiyu · Aug 24, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

In my opinion EVERY elite in this game should be a valuable skill.

True, but I think every class has useless elites - Stone Sheath for eles, for example. So, in that way it is balanced.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 24, 2010, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashiyu

True, but I think every class has useless elites - Stone Sheath for eles, for example. So, in that way it is balanced.

Doesn't mean that's the way it should be though. And certainly some classes have way more useless elites than others.

Khomet Si Netjer · Aug 25, 2010, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I'm one of those that believe that every skill should be useful, and believe it or not I have used Pacifism in alliance battles. Epic LOLs when you cast it on an approaching assassin and laugh as he stands there shaking with rage. However the cast time and recharge times are way too long as this is essentially a defensive skill. Unlike other anti-attacker skills (e.g. Insidious Parasite, Empathy) these skills don't hurt the attacker at all, and they end if the target is damaged in any way. IMO these skills could be fixed with trivial changes.

Pacifism; 5e 1/4s 20r (was 10e 2s 30r)
Hex Spell. (8...18...20 seconds.) Target foe cannot attack. Ends if this foe takes damage.

notes: reduced activation time and recharge time so that this can be used defensively and can be maintained with high protection prayers.

Amity; 5e 1/4s 20r (was 5e 1/4s 45r)
Elite Hex Spell. (8...18...20 seconds.) Target foe and adjacent foes cannot attack. Ends on any foes that take damage.

notes: reduced recharge time and changed to target foe + adjacent foes, this way it functions as an elite version of Pacifism. Possibly change this to target foe + nearby foes instead.

Even though the hex can be removed, and it removes itself whenever its target(s) take damage, think how useful it would be to cast Pacifism on a magebane ranger and buy yourself some interrupt-free casting time. Or cast on an approaching assassin as I have described above.

Luminarus · Aug 25, 2010, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Just a thought, maybe turn em into an offensive version of soothing or something, adding a loses all adrenaline, and cant gain until takes damage (as well as not being able to attack.)

AndroBubbles · Sep 27, 2010, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Pacifism - 10e, 1s, 10r
Hex Spell. For 30 seconds, target foe cannot attack. This hex ends prematurely if that foe takes more than 15...50 damage in a single second.

I wanted this skill to behave similarly to scourge healing and the like. The duration is set, but actual spec in the attribute is required to prevent it from ending prematurely, and the energy cost is still at 10 to prevent too much usage.

Amity - 5e, 3/4s, 15r
Hex Spell. For 5 seconds, target foe's next 0...3 attacks/skills that target a foe fail. Ends if that foe takes damage.

I didn't want this to be spammable, but I wanted it to be worthy of its elite slot, so I refrained from increasing the energy cost. This would need to be used wisely, and at precisely the right moment for it to be effective. Also, higher speccing would be required to really get much benefit out of it, though a hybrid might also be able to make some use. I didn't make it a 1/4 cast to avoid serious power creep, so the spell is still able to be somewhat reliably interrupted by somebody who knows what they're doing.

Chthon · Sep 29, 2010, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

I had some suggestions here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._Update_-_Monk

Amity
5 ¾ 25
Elite Hex Spell. "For 10 seconds, target foe cannot use attack skills, and whenever target foe attacks, up to 3 of your allies nearby him are healed for 5..35 health. This hex ends after 3..6 attacks."

Pacifism
5 ¾ 25
Hex Spell. "For 10 seconds, target foe cannot use attack skills. This hex ends after 3..6 attacks."

The first step is to remove the end-on-damage condition, as it's impossible to maintain in PvE, and slightly trivial in PvP. With that, we change the effect. Now it's handy to prevent an attack spike, but enough aggression can make it end early. Amity becomes like a reverse Healing Hands.

I rather like this idea. Mind if I tweak it a bit?

Amity's elite. It's got to do a little better than that to justify its status.

Amity
5e ¾cast 25recharge
Elite Hex Spell. "For 10 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill that targets one of your allies, that foe's target and all allies near its target are healed for 5..50 health."

Pacifism should stop damage completely.

Pacifism
5e ¾cast 20recharge
Hex Spell. "For 10 seconds, target foe's attacks deal 0 damage and that foe cannot use skills that target your allies. This hex ends after 3..8 attacks."